Obama: The Biggest Liar on the Campaign Trail

Never say never, Henry

In principle, once the risk of an oil supply disruption, presently factured into prices, drops (that means when the US and Iran settle their minor differences) and once the Dollar recuperates (one being connected to the other), oil prices could drop to as low as $60 and not reach present levels again until 2012 at earliest.

Its not that Iran posturing and Dollar weakness have nothing to do with present oil prices. The "strong demand" mantra is rather a distraction from seeing and labelling the true cost of US policymaking under this administration - a burden on the US economy which is HUGE, btw.

Regarding verdict #3 "it's all about the math"

and the data.

Mississippi doesn't have partisan registration, so what numbers should one use for the current Dem/GOP split? Pick a method, author of this piece, and we'll see if your statement holds.

Let's try 2004 election results, 671,084 Bush 445,608 Kerry.
approx. 75% of voters in Miss. are registered (black & white about the same) and 50% of the registered voters actually voted, so to get an approx. of black voters who are eligible to vote but who did not, we take 25% of the total, i.e. 279174. If all those vote for Obama, the total becomes 724781. (see this for where i got percentages from)

Bill- "Waterwalker"---love that....it's even better than deter's "petronio"....anyhoo--I'm paying $2.85 at the pumps....not bad....not bad at all.

Obama is not the biggest liar, he is just not as good at it as Shillary or McCain.

or Bush. Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Yes-- There were a incredible amount of blatant lies about Saddam's WMDs

But krishna, all those brilliant Democrats were duped --- by a chimp.

Great find Krishna and spot on Bill.

And the Republicans nominated a chimp (though he was the best in the barrel) in 2000 to run for office, brilliant!

I might, but not because I want to be fair - I have never claimed to be fair and never will - it's impossible. Especially not because some Obama supporter comes on here and whines because I'm being unfair.

Mike's original comment makes absolutely no reference to Obama, yet you think he is a supporter for the mere fact that he has an issue with your article. Your reaction just goes to show what this article is really meant to do: rile up Obama supporters instead of informing the general public of the "study."

Besides, I have major issue with the site you quote, which selected various numbers of quotes from each candidate. Why not at least select the same number of quotes from each candidate and at least give the appearance of being legitimate? Of course, there are far more than just 30 or 40 something quotes each candidate has made, but what made them pick the ones they did. It's as if I take eight of my comments with stars, throw in two that don't have them, then state that 80% of my comments are popular, which is complete crap. Who's to say the people conducting this survey don't have an agenda and didn't purposely select more or fewer "truthful" quotes to make a candidate look good/bad?

You will be put straight here on newsvine, Little One, because we're a little older and little more experienced :)

Brandon beat me to it, but putting a smiley face on an obnoxious comment doesn't make it any more palatable, or the commenter any less a jerk.

I've got to agree. I may not agree with Brandon's choice of source (their "analysis" seems pretty sketchy and superficial), but there's no need to attack someone because of his age. Address the merits of the seed instead of trying to make it about the seeder. I've seen plenty of shaky statistics and invalid arguments made by people of all ages on Newsvine, from 15 to 65, and I've seen some very astute arguments made by people on Newsvine who were still in high school.

How about dropping the ad hominem, eh?

Years ago, I ran the third computer store to open in the SF Bay area. I had as employees a 51 year old, a 26 year old and an 18 year old. Wouldn't you know the only one I could count on to be at work on time was the 18 year old. When I needed someone to open the store because I had to be elsewhere, to make the bank deposit, etc. the one I could count on was the 18 year old.

Age means nothing. The reference that "Mike" is an Obama supporter, I got from his response as well. You might argue that these are not lies, more of a glossing over of the facts; which still supports the point.

But Mike, Your SECOND comment was way out of line. I think that if you read it again you will be embarased at what you said. "----It's ok. You will be put straight here on newsvine, Little One, because we're a little older and little more experienced :)" and so on.

Maybe I'm a little older than you, (or just plain older than dirt) Mike, and maybe a little more experienced. Maybe your page says you are "Just an American doing his job..." where I'm just a disabled veteran. But give Brandon credit, he didn't back down to an overaged sandlot bully, nor get down to the same level of name calling as you or Dr. Know above.

Not to stir the pot here and definitely not to defend Mr. Rupert... but the tight defense of Brandon, while warranted seems to be done because of his age also. I've seen other member get talked down to / at in worse ways and no one really steps up in defense of them.

Am I whining because it's happened to me? No... I'm an adult and am capable of defending myself.

Am I saying that Brandon can't defend himself? No. Clearly he has, and did it well while being a lot more respectful than an ageist stereotype would assume.

Am I even saying that we shouldn't or should suddenly defend people? No. Like Brandon, I'm not fair either - sink or swim is on the shoulders of the person in the water (within reason)

What I am saying is that it just seemed that Mr Rupert attacked Brandon's age, and there were a lot of verbal reprimands to Mr. Rupert in Brandons defense where I normally do not see that kind of defense and couldn't help but wonder if it had to do with the very same things Rupert was attacking.

Isn't it curious how disenfranchised young-voters are, when they're frequently told that until that magic moment of being able to do so, that their political knowledge is invalid.

You will be put straight here on newsvine, Little One, because we're a little older and little more experienced :)

Brandon.....don't you just loathe those 16 year old "know it alls"? LoL

I think gpnavonod wins best comment for this thread :-)

Brandon,
I understand that freshmen and seniors are divided by age, but is it really that bigger a cultural thing in the US? I ca'n't think of any school -here in the UK- I've attended, visited, or worked in, that I've seen the kind of linear demarcation that appears to be in the US school system. Or is it just one of those things foreigners such as myself pick up the notion of, through films etc.?

That'd get him elected in a heartbeat in Russia. Oops! Wait a minute - we're hellbent to imitate Russia! This guy's just won?

I never thought I'd agree with a socialist, but lookey here, the day has come.

I'm very disenfranchised by Obama

Obama deprived you of the right to vote?

I'm very disenfranchised by Obama

That one puzzled me, too. Could you explain how you lost your vote and how this is the fault of Obama?

This could be a major scandal.

I took it as meaning that Obama is unrepresentative of his views. It is an odd word choice, though.

Perhaps 'disenchanted' is what he meant.

Perhaps 'disenchanted' is what he meant.

Ah, that would make sense.

Barack Obama is actively advocating for the Primary votes of the state of Michigan to be disregarded and our delegates not seated, therefore ignoring our votes. Don't act cocky and full of yourself when yes, I wasn't full of crap, our votes are not being counted.

Socialist08:
@!$%# to your state reps, not the national party. They were warned, they told the DNC to @!$%# off and now they're paying the consequences. Your elected reps disenfranchised you, not Obama.

The fun's just starting Brandon. You see, you're not supposed to question St. Barack of Cook County on policy questions. You're to accept the wisdom of all his ways based on faith because he's all about change and hope and -- "Yes, we can!!"

Robert Blevins - AB of Seattle

Here's some better examples of lies:

"We're not providing guns to the rebels in Nicaragua..."

"I am not a crook..."

"We have to win in Iraq in order to defeat terrorism..."

Funny thing. Those were all said by Republicans.

So was "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

The point is, we need to stop voting for the people who we think would be better to sit down with for coffee than we are confident he can LEAD a nation.

Bill:
I'm disappointed you would give credence to such a sorry article that relies on flimsy claims to crown Obama the King of the Liars. I thought your notion of fair play outweighed your political leanings and respected you for it. I suppose I was wrong.

Well, whomever gets the Big Job in November, they are going to have one heck of an 8-year mess to clean up, and I don't envy them the task.

I may have been a little too hard on Brandon back there...

Scott,

I hate to burst your bubble but Obama's nostrums as posted on his website are going to be great fun in the coming months as he "refines" his views. And some whom I respect have already begun. He's going to need more than the cheerleaders like Chris Matthews having a tingle run up their legs. Cheers!!

Bill:
There's no bubble-bursting going on here. I'm well aware that Obama is going to face scrutiny and it doesn't bother me in the least. What does bother me, however, is you patting this young man on the back and telling him that he has done a fine job for violating the CoH and failing to even vet his work properly to remove something that demonstrably is not a lie. In that, you're not being fair and you're not being a responsible Viner. You're also doing it because this misguided young man is skewering someone you don't like. You would never write something this ill-conceived which is why I'm surprised that you are acting as a cheerleader for him. As I said, I suppose your conservative political views dominate your opinion far more than I thought they did... it's disappointing, I thought you were more interested in the truth than the propaganda this young man is shilling. Furthermore, maybe you can give him some lessons on debating like a man... you have yet to delete a post of mine where I disagree with you but Brandon couldn't dive for the "delete" button fast enough when I called him on his bull@!$%#. If he can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I second that remark.

The future is better with the young involved instead of glued to a video game. We all were young at one time (at least I think I remember being young). We have to express ourselves and learn in order to improve. There is no magical age at which you are suddenly wise enough to speak.

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

I try not to think of people as sheep. Sheep have scary eyes (to me)... Lemmings... they're more like lemmings because periodically a large portion of us will jump off a cliff for no real reason at all...

Are you Cliff Potter in disguise? :)

This man is dangerous and the sheep are following him right off a cliff.

I would like to point out that sheep do something completely different when you push them up to a cliff. They push back and you get a "Happy Farmer" instead of the "Happy Fisherman".

Truth is though, your observation is correct! People would rather make the farmer happy than to be pushed over the cliff.

Kai is misquoting Obama, calling him a liar here. Okay, this is an excerpt from the article, showing what Obama actually said:

""I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation" like background checks, he said during a news conference. He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime."

I don't see anything here about not supporting gun rights, only supporting common sense. Let's also remember that Obama is familiar with the Constitution. He is a former scholar of the document. California, did, in fact pass this trace-the-bullet law. Come on, with today's technology, it was only a matter of time before someone decided to do this. It wasn't even Obama's idea.

I don't see anything here about not supporting gun rights, only supporting common sense.

Compare his new-found 'care' for the 2nd Amendment and compare it against his past record and stance against guns. His all out calls for bans, etc.

He's a hypocrite and a liar. His entire MOA is to dupe the American people into believing he's one thing (sympathetic and supportive of the 2A) when he's something entirely different (rabidly anti).

Lemmings... they're more like lemmings because periodically a large portion of us will jump off a cliff for no real reason at all...

Apropos of nothing, but isn't that a myth, anyway?

While I think it's great that you are interested in politics, you seem, at this young age, to merely be parroting the common talk radio speak. Which is rude, insensitive and not at all enlightening.

So.. because he has opinions that happen to line up with conservative radio hosts he shouldn't speak up? Hmmm...

I would urge you to steer away from these "truth" sites. Most, have some sort of point or view they are trying to push.

The best way to learn about something, is to not form opinions too early in the learning process. If you keep an open mind about what is being said instead of attaching labels to those you may not favor, you'll more and become a smarter person as a reward.

So basically, you want him to put aside any opinions or beliefs he may have, in order to keep an 'open mind' for the other side (libs) to indoctrinate him as quick as they can, right? Are you a college professor or something?

I'm a very liberal person and I tend to side with their arguments, you call the kid a parrot, you only make yourself look like a jack@$$.

you call the kid a parrot, you only make yourself look like a jack@$$.

I dunno, I thought Jimster did a pretty even handed job of expressing how he took the article. Yeah, it picked out the age thing, but it wasnt demeaning. It's pretty easy to forget that teens are a little smarter than we give them credit for. Times change and as such the youth get more involved with a lot of different things. I look at my four year old quite often and think "he learned that all on his own?" and am happy.

Even if Brandon were to have repeated some of what he heard from whatever source, Brandon would still have to go back and do a bit of checking up on things to make sure he didn't come off sounding stupid.

Kai@14.1-

So.. because he has opinions that happen to line up with conservative radio hosts he shouldn't speak up? Hmmm...

Kai- Would be so kind as to point out where I urged Brandon to one side of the isle or the other? I made no mention of right wing radio. I said nothing that attempted to pull him away from his ideology or towards mine. There's nothing wrong with opinions, so long as they're informed.

I feel that all this screeching radio blather is not a good way to teach someone new to the process about the best way to select the next president.

What the world needs is more thoughtful, respectful debate. Not more yelling. Adults should be encouraging youth to improve the world they are growing into, not just provide it with more of the same.

So basically, you want him to put aside any opinions or beliefs he may have, in order to keep an 'open mind' for the other side (libs) to indoctrinate him as quick as they can, right?

Ah... Kai, listen, thanks for proving my point about the state of political discourse in this country. Very illuminating.
What I am saying to this obviously bright and involved young man is to 1) Be aware of your sources. Make sure you're not just choosing them because they confirm your beliefs. Seek the truth by looking at the issue from all sides before coming to conclusions. 2) Once you arrive at your opinions, impart them to your audience in a civil way, because you'll be more effective. 3) And most importantly, keep an open mind. Not so someone can open up your skull and pour their doctrine into your head, but in order to guard against that very thing.
Screaming headlines about liars only inflames people. And when that happens communication stops and so does learning. On all sides.

Are you a college professor or something?

No, but thanks for the compliment.

Socialist08@14.2-

I'm a very liberal person and I tend to side with their arguments, you call the kid a parrot, you only make yourself look like a jack@$$.

Sorry I thought most people were able to discern between the act of repeating or mimicking the views of another without questioning and a brightly colored jungle bird.

My bad.

BTW- I think parrots are cool.

You see, you're not supposed to question St. Barack of Cook County on policy questions. You're to accept the wisdom of all his ways based on faith because he's all about change and hope and -- "Yes, we can!!"

-Tim Harrison

The apparently mindless following that is the Obamatons is starting to annoy us all, methinks. Except the Obamatons, of course.

Or you could go to his website and read the actual policies, instead of being an internet troll.

That would work too.

You know, I have put an enormous amount of energy and thought into my analysis of the candidates this election. I'm very excited that I have found a candidate, in Senator Obama, in whom I can put my whole support. For once, I feel like this is a candidate who really approaches the problems confronting our nation in a way that I believe will be a change for the better. I've watched speeches and debates, read a multitude of articles and policy statements, participated in online forums such as this, and talked with friends, colleagues and family about the candidates and issues. If after all of that, I find Obama to be the candidate I want to support, does that make me mindless? I think your assessment of the "Obamatrons" is unfair and condescending.

Yeah, I know his policies. Since I'm against Socialism, I'm against Obama. (Still support him over McCain though.)

And tgs, I've done the same, but, unlike you and unfortunately for me, I can't find a candidate to get excited about. And I don't mean to insult the Obama followers who have done their homework. It just seems like the majority of his followers back him because of his rhetoric, his charisma, and his platitudes. Those are the ones I'm dubbing the Obamatons.

And before that there were Ronulans. Before that there were...

You bring the level of discourse down because you can't compete in an intelligent debate.

The apparently mindless following that is the Obamatons is starting to annoy us all, methinks.

Especially the intellectual giants who supported Bush.

(Oh, and speaking of intellectual giants, it's Bill Harrison, not Tim.)

Douglas Long@20.0

This is very similar to what the German people thought of Hitler! He was a great Communicator! You could really tell he had a sense of what the country needed! Napoleon was also elected for the very same reason! The people elected and put both of these men in power because it was what they wanted and they did not want to consider the cost!

Ahem... Douglas, do you remember what they called Ronald Reagan? Yup that's right, The Great Communicator. Does that make Reagan's supporters no better than the followers of Hitler as well?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being an inspirational leader. We certainly need one after the last eight years. Obama may not be your cup of tea, but the fact that he inspires people cannot be considered a negative by any means.

Oh btw- Cut the Hitler schtick

Regan was one of the worst things that has ever happened to this country. And yes, voting for someone because he is a good communicator, does liken them in that respect to Hitler, Napoleon, and Regan (I guess). This isn't a problem yet, but understand that if there is a slip up in ofice by them, they will be likened to them even the more harshly because of this.

This is the disservice of being 60+ years away from WWII.... people misunderstand and misuse Hitler's name.

Who's Brian?

Sure makes for a juicy headline, tho.

SuperUnspecial,

You seem to think that money is wealth. This is your first error and probably the most common in America. Let me Explain;

In 2001 you bought a house for $250,000 and sold it for $450,000 in 2005. This would seem to be an 80% increase. However, when you look at actual wealth, taking gold because of its monetary propensity, you suffered a 10% loss! Since Gold does not decrease in value, the value of the dollar has dropped! Thus if you would have gotten $500,000 for the house, you would have broken even, since you did not, you can think of it as a 10% tax on your money in the bank. Not the interest, but because you held onto the money you were taxed.

If you think that Brandon is creating a facetious argument by including the rate of inflation, I would have to say you were attacking him because he is right and you don't want to give your world view and the possibility to get rich by not having to work for it.

I would like to know if Brandon was using the government's disclosed arbitrarily made up rate of inflation or if he was using a true barometer, like comparing the price of oil to the price of gold for the time in question.

Douglas

You seem to think that money is wealth

Reread my comment, you'll probably come to a different opinion, if not c'est la vie.

If you think that Brandon is creating a facetious argument by including the rate of inflation

There is nothing facetious about his argument... or do you mean fallacious? The argument is fallacious in regard to this example, because, we are talking about LYING here, not simply BEING WRONG. For example, I don't think you lied in your comment above, but plainly, your reading of my comment is wrong.

I would have to say you were attacking him because he is right and you don't want to give your world view and the possibility to get rich by not having to work for it.

WTF? This came out of nowhere and seems to be nonsensical. You may "have to say it" but you'd be wrong. I'm not attacking him, if an author's first sentence is in first person and self referential, and that first sentence is demonstrated to be in conflict with other parts of the article, that is not a personal attack, it's a refutation of the text.

Gold isn't a reliable benchmark of inflation; bullion moves on the foreign exchange market independent of any one currency, and is subject to changes because of supply of metals and trade agreements that don't affect the currency at large. CPI works better as a measure of inflation. Gold does, in fact, suffer drops in price from time to time. In fact, since the open on the 13th, gold is down about $13.

I would like to thank you, Super. You were right. I intended "fallacious".

In the sense of a 'liar' I have to concede that a liar is epistemologically self-conscious, or rather 'they know they're wrong'. However, to give that kind of leeway to anyone running for office you give berth to a rampant growth of 'plausible deniability'. If this is allowed to continue, we will find ourselves bickering about a figurehead who has absolutely NO idea what is going on because he has given all of the important decisions to his cabinet and only receives a report and doesn't even question it.

Sound familiar?

In regards to my world view comment, let me revise something. I will replace 'attack' with 'hostile critiquing'. It is only in the light of faith in the stability of the US Dollar that your argument holds water. Brandon did NOT associate price with value! He directly avoids that by asserting the implications of inflation. Your argument states that the dollar is the determining factor across a variable timeline which is simply not true. The value of the dollar at the different times is, if used and stated correctly.

My argument is not dependent on economics or world views, it is dependent upon the fact that in one respect, the quote of Obama could be considered true, in another respect it could be considered false, my world view plays no role here. In the most logically consistent, literal meaning of "paid more for" (inflation adjusted 2008 dollars) Brandon is right and Obama is wrong, but, we're miles away from showing this is an instance of lying, and Brandon even proves this point when he mentions that

This is actually common statement made today.

Meaning that most people hold this false belief. So, this is not an argument for a man being a liar and anyone who thinks it is does not take the word liar too seriously.

Now, McCain seems to think that Islamic Terrorism is the biggest threat facing the USA...I think that is actually demonstrably wrong...but I don't think he's a liar for voicing that opinion (but he could be).